Hao Nguyen for Hennepin County Attorney
Sean: We'd like to welcome Hao Nguyen, who is running for Hennepin County Attorney. The primary is less than a week away, and we want to shed some light on these candidates for what is a very important role in the Twin Cities. Thank you so much for joining us, Hao.
Hao: Hi, Sean. It's a pleasure to be here. I really appreciate you taking the time and offering the space, and I appreciate everything you do.
Sean: A big part of City Cast's philosophy is about being a good neighbor. I want you to think about how your work as an elected official would tangibly impact the community you yourself live in.
Hao: Well, Sean, one of the things is that for the last 10 years I've been the board chair of Asian Women United Against Domestic Assault. We run domestic assault shelters here in Minneapolis and St. Paul, providing mothers and their children a safe place where they can thrive and take the next step when they're experiencing domestic assault. For me, that's part of being a good neighbor – making sure we're all safe and taken care of, so we don't have to worry about violence and can focus on how to thrive.
I'm also a board member of a children's hospital here in Minneapolis and St. Paul. For me, living in the community is important, but being part of the community – and the resources that come from that – is equally important, if not more so. I live in the Regina/Powderhorn neighborhood in Minneapolis, right off 35W South and 46th Street. And there are just good things about being a good neighbor: I live by St. Joan of Arc Church, and every Sunday there's a lot of traffic, so I move my car off the street and park it on the slab in back so people can park in front. Small things like that – mowing your neighbor's lawn, picking up trash when you see it. Things of that nature.
Sean: That sounds like a lot of good work in the community – and frankly, I'd love more neighbors who'd park on their slab instead of taking up spots. But when you get into office, if elected, how do you think your work there will impact the community – not through moving your car or serving on a board, but through actually doing the work of the attorney?
Hao: Yeah, I've got over 20 years of experience in the criminal justice field. I was a correctional officer beforehand, working in the jails as a CO. Then I became a police officer, patrolling in a squad car. And now I've been a prosecutor for over 16 years. I live in Minneapolis and raised my kids in Minneapolis, but my experience as a criminal prosecutor spans everywhere from St. Cloud to Ramsey County in St. Paul.
I'm the division director of our criminal division, and I supervise around 40 trial attorneys and prosecutors. I also supervise two assistant directors, paralegals, legal secretaries, and everyone in between. I know how to manage a prosecutor's budget. I know how to hire and fire people. I know how to advocate when judges are too harsh on our attorneys, but I also know how to correct attorneys when they need to do a better job.
I've done everything you can imagine in the criminal justice field, from beginning to end. I know how to investigate cases as a police officer, and I know how to charge cases as a prosecutor. I also understand what it means to be a prosecutor who walks a victim into court and says, "Look at me – I've got you," because they're about to face the person who did that horrible, terrible thing to them. We're talking about sexual assault, aggravated robbery, child sex abuse cases, and everything in between.
I know what it's like to look at a jury and know they're working hard to do their civic duty – deciding whether I've proven my case beyond a reasonable doubt. That's such an important duty for the jury. And I know what it's like to look at the defendant and see that, too often, these are people with scarce resources – poor folks, people of color – who've become entangled in our criminal justice system. They have every right, like the rest of us, to be protected under the Constitution, and the Fourth Amendment is so important. I understand that part too.
So for me, it's a whole career of public service – making sure our communities are safe, that victims are heard and their voices uplifted, and that we look at defendants as if they were our own friends and family members, our neighbors – because the truth is, most people who are incarcerated do come back into our community. So we have to treat everyone with respect.
Sean: That is – I mean, you've had an incredible career arc, one that tells the story of somebody who's seen a lot of different sides of the justice system, and of our world. I imagine that shapes your priority list if elected. So given the life you've lived, what are some of the top issues on your list if you're elected to this office?
Hao: I think one of the biggest things right now – there's no denying it – is that our community, specifically here in the metro, has been impacted heavily by Operation Metro Surge. ICE's involvement in our communities was profound, violent, negative, and will have lasting impacts.
For me, I'm the only refugee and immigrant in the race – period. If you look at the slate of candidates, nobody else has that experience. I was born in Vietnam, raised by a single mother. We fled Vietnam with nothing but the clothes on our backs and lived in refugee camps in the Philippines for about two years. I believe, by the grace of God, we won the lottery when we were sponsored to come to the U.S. Catholic Charities sponsored my mom, my brothers, and me to come to St. Cloud, Minnesota. There, I learned what it's like to grow up poor in a trailer park – English as a second language, EBT, food stamps, translating for my mom – clawing my way through school, becoming a police officer, and then a lawyer.
But to get back to your question – and that's a long way of answering it – I've lived every aspect of what the county attorney's office touches. It reaches a lot of poor folks. It reaches immigrants and refugees who have language barriers. It reaches people who, especially with the ICE situation, don't know if they should report a crime because they might be undocumented – though just because someone's undocumented doesn't make them illegal. They could be totally legal, but their papers have expired and all they need to do is renew them. But there's a language barrier that scares them away from doing that.
So I've lived all of those parts of society, and if I get elected, it would be an honor to give voice to those experiences personally, not just academically. I'm also the only candidate right now actively investigating ICE and looking at potential prosecution. There's a case involving the man who was taken from his home in his underwear in the middle of winter – a U.S. citizen. I'm leading that investigation as the head prosecutor, working with law enforcement to investigate that case, among others. So while other candidates are talking about what they'll do once they get there, I'm actually doing the work right now.
And I say that with a heavy heart, because it's very important work – and it informs what will need to be done with Alex Pretti murder and Renee Good's murder, prosecutions the current county attorney won't be able to continue because she's stepping down. The new county attorney needs to hit the ground running. Right now, I'm the only one doing the actual work of ICE investigation and prosecution. That's one of my biggest priorities.
Sean: And you're doing that work right now from your position at Ramsey County. In your time as an attorney, could you think of a case from before Operation Metro Surge – something you worked on years ago – that best exemplifies the philosophy you'd bring to the position of Hennepin County Attorney?
Hao: Yeah. There are so many cases – I've had about 16 years of prosecution experience, so there are a lot. Sean, when you ask that question, so many faces flash through my mind. But if I had to pick quickly, there was one case involving two sisters who were very close – I want to be respectful, so I won't mention names. They went to a local college here; one of the sisters was really good friends with a football player. That football player ultimately committed criminal sexual conduct in the first degree against the sister's younger sister. It happened on a college campus – first degree involves forced penetration and injuries. It's pretty bad stuff.
One of the complicated things about crimes like that is the family and friendship dynamics, especially in a college setting – people start having rifts, one sister might not talk to the other, friends take sides. It's complicated. Most sexual assaults don't happen in front of everyone; they happen alone, just between the perpetrator and the victim. Those sisters had a really hard relationship during that period – they'd been so close, but that closeness wasn't there anymore during the prosecution.
One memory I'll always hold dear: at the end, both sisters walked out of court hand in hand, hugging each other – they were sisters again. There had been some distrust, some doubt about whether one sister had really suffered the harm. But you have to believe people when they say something's happened to them, and you also have to follow the facts and the evidence. I was ultimately proud to obtain a conviction against that football player, who committed – and I can say now, committed – sexual assault. Seeing those sisters come back together, seeing the justice system help heal people – that was a big moment for me. There are some magical things that can happen if you let people find their path to it.
Sean: Hao, I understand you've been an attorney for 16 years. I've been a podcast host for 11 months, so I don't have the experience to make a smooth transition to a fluff question. You just gave a very thoughtful answer about a serious case, and I appreciate that – but I also want to get to know you a little as a human being. Let's say you're in South Minneapolis on a rare Sunday off – no traffic, because St. Joan of Arc isn't hosting a service – plenty of parking. What are you doing to fill the day?
Hao: Yeah, actually it's pretty simple. It starts with a really nice cup of coffee – I'm a big coffee nerd, so I like to grind my own beans and do a pour-over. Then, if I'm able to, I like to sit down and write – something I haven't been able to do in years. I write short stories, poetry, things like that. Then a walk around the lakes – pretty calm. And if the kids are done with school or other activities, we'll get onto the soccer field together, and maybe draw some anime with my youngest – she really likes drawing anime. That's my perfect day. Doesn't require too much.
Sean: Sounds like a pretty great day. I want to ask about your background, specifically your experience as a CO working in the jails, because it's rare for attorneys to have experience as police officers – but to have actually worked inside a correctional facility is quite rare. I consider incarceration to be one of the most problematic parts of our society, and people on the inside – whether working there or serving a sentence – have a unique perspective. Everything about your story brings uniqueness to what you do, but I want to focus specifically on what working inside a jail makes you think about the rest of the justice system. You saw that side of it early in your career, and now, as a prosecutor – and presumably in this new role – you're the one sending people to prison. What does that experience do for you?
Hao: Yeah, well, thanks. So as a correctional officer, I worked at the Stearns County Jail for several years. Here's the deal: there are usually two COs to a pod of dozens of inmates, so you learn very quickly that if you don't treat people with respect and dignity, it can become a really dangerous situation for you and the other inmates. You learn to say, "Yes sir, no sir" to the inmates – "How are things going? How are you doing today? I noticed you might be a little down – what's going on?" You learn quickly that you need to treat everyone with respect and dignity.
And here's the other part: fairness. If you treat one person differently than others, people see it and know it, and that erodes trust. That was one of the biggest things I learned right away, and it was such a blessing to have that experience. Another thing I learned is that these are people with lives – kids at home, grandparents, mothers, sisters, aunts. You'd ask, "Hey, how's it going? You doing okay?" And they'd say, "Yeah, I'm doing pretty good." "Nothing going on?" "Nope – everything's good, because next Wednesday" – and this is real – "next Wednesday I get to get out for my mom's," or "my grandmother's 90th birthday. I'm going to be able to make that party. They're going to be so surprised when I show up – they don't even know I'm getting out." It's real – people with families, friends, and relationships that matter to other people.
You also know these are folks serving their time to society. They've committed a crime, they've been found guilty or pled guilty, and now they're serving their sentence. I have a tremendous amount of respect for people who've taken their punishment – whether they pled guilty or exercised their right to a trial and were found guilty. That's fine; you have the right to a trial. But once you're serving your time, you should be treated with dignity, fairness, and respect. That's really important.
I've been a prosecutor for 16 years now – murder cases, sexual assault cases, auto theft, aggravated robbery, everything in between. If I started counting the years of people I've sent to prison, it would frankly – but prosecution isn't just about incarceration. It's a necessary component of it, but there are also people I've prosecuted that I think about, and I hope they're doing okay. They needed to go to prison – you don't get to stab someone and leave them dying on the side of the road without taking some responsibility for that. But I still hope they're doing okay. I hope they're out now, I hope they've gotten their GED, I hope they've been able to start the family they wanted. It's not as simple as just incarceration.
Being a correctional officer really teaches you that these are people, Sean. Between you and me, some bad decisions away, we could be incarcerated very quickly. And there's this whole other area – mental health, addiction – that leads people into lives where they ultimately get incarcerated. It's not something they ever really chose. I tell my kids all the time: when you're driving and you see something happening, nobody chooses that life. No one wants to wake up every day without medical insurance, begging for food, struggling with addiction, ultimately becoming a victim of crime themselves – because they're vulnerable on the streets – or maybe committing crimes out of necessity.
So for me, I think we need a lot of humanity in what we do. That doesn't mean we don't prosecute – that's still necessary, because victims of crime have to have their voices heard and uplifted too. Anyway, I'm very passionate about this. I could go on forever.
Sean: Well, Hao, I appreciate what you've shared with us, and I appreciate the perspective you're bringing to this race. Hao Nguyen is running for Hennepin County Attorney. We appreciate your time on City Cast Twin Cities, and thank you again for spending time to talk about your positions and your background.
Hao: Yeah, and Sean – I know you've been at this for just a little while, but I'll tell you one thing: I've done a lot of interviews, and you make a person feel comfortable. That's probably the most important thing a podcast host has to do.
Sean: Thank you, Hao.
