Sean McPherson: For a number of months, I was wondering when Minneapolis Public Schools would drop an announcement that would truly transform the school district. MPS's financial woes, and its mishandling of said financial woes, have been big news in the Twin Cities for almost half a decade. Though there's been some really severe belt-tightening from the district, there hadn't been the kind of belt-tightening I thought would be needed to move the needle on these financial problems.
Then September 15 comes around, and the MPS school board announces an immediately controversial plan to shut down a double-digit number of schools. I should say that the “Transformation” web post from Minneapolis Public Schools states that these cuts are going to create a school system where everybody thrives “academically, socially, and emotionally through a holistic, culturally sustaining education that engages and prepares contributing citizens”.
But this caused a lot of distress. Part of that is the school closures themselves, and part of it is that this isn't really belt-tightening, because these closures would not save a significant amount of money. The community response has been largely negative, and anti-transformation groups have been mounting protests, including one that happened on September 29 at the Davis Center.
Em Cassel: The announcement of 16 schools potentially closing is jarring enough, but it's still numerical. It isn't personal. So we connected with parents of students at Kenny and Cityview. Both schools are proposed to be closed and merged in some of the scenarios presented by MPS.
Sean McPherson: We want to welcome on Shakiya Carter, who has children at Cityview. Thank you for being here, Shakiya.
Shakiya Carter: Thank you for having me.
Sean McPherson: And we'd also like to welcome on Alyssa Olson, who has children at Kenny. Alyssa, thank you for being here.
Alyssa Olson: Thanks for having me.
Em Cassel: Have the two of you talked to your children about the potential for their schools to close? And how do you explain that?
Shakiya Carter: I had a conversation with my children. I actually have two who attend Cityview. One of them is kind of a veteran kid at this point, because she's been there since kindergarten, and then I have a new incoming kindergartner this year. When I had the conversation, my son, the kindergartner, didn't really understand. But my fourth grader was like, "Well, Mom, what does that mean for me and my friends? I won't be able to see my friends next year, and I won't be able to see my teachers next year. Where's everybody gonna go?"
Alyssa Olson: Yeah, I spoke to mine too. I actually have two Kenny kids: a fifth grader and a third grader. I think the initial reaction was, "Well, why?" She sees all the amazing things that are happening at her school, and she feels such a deep connection to her teachers and her principal and her friends. So the immediate reaction was just, "But why? It's so great. I love it here. Why would they want to close it?" Those were tough conversations, and I probably didn't have answers, because the district hasn't really provided any answers. So, yeah, tough conversations for sure.
Sean McPherson: These tough conversations involve communicating really adult issues to children, which is a struggle in and of itself. There are also the decisions you'll have to make as parents. There's transportation. Are we switching school districts? Are we looking for a different school? There's a lot to manage, especially because there are multiple scenarios.
Shakiya, I want to start with a question about Cityview. There are a couple of different scenarios for what might happen there. In one, Cityview students would join Lucy Laney. In another, students from Hmong International Academy would come to Cityview. Independent of the conversations you're having with your kids, have you thought about what you're going to do if Cityview closes? Are you going to move districts, or move to a different school, or are you still trying to figure out the decision?
Shakiya Carter: I'm at a place where I'm still trying to figure out the decision. I'm so deeply vested in my community that I feel like if the schools are going to close, it's going to be a disinvestment, right? We're going to see people disinvest. We're going to see people leave.
Personally, I still haven't made a decision, but here's what I can tell you. It sounds nice that if they close the school, we can realistically move children to other schools. However, that's not what families want. What the district fails to realize is that Cityview is a gateway for families who want to come into the district and build a home here. It's also a school where families who are already in the district choose to stay. And Cityview isn't the only school I'd consider an entry school or a gateway into the district. There are many other schools on that list that could be considered the same or similar. If we lose these schools, we are inherently going to lose families in the community.
Em Cassel: Alyssa, did you have a sense that Kenny was on the verge of closing, or was this a total shock?
Alyssa Olson: They've been trying to close Kenny for years. This has been a rumor in our community for years and years, and they've tried in the past, and the community was able to step in and stop it. So was I surprised? Not entirely. But I'm surprised they would think this is a positive step for the district as a whole. I'm surprised they haven't thought about the ripple effect. This isn't just about Kenny or Kenny kids. From Kenny to Cityview, the ripple effect through this district will be catastrophic. So am I surprised? I'm not surprised, but I am surprised at the lack of transparency and the lack of thoughtfulness that went into this plan.
Em Cassel: I'll ask you the same question we asked Shakiya. Does your family have a plan? Do you know what you'll do if these closures go through?
Alyssa Olson: I'm kind of in the same boat as Shakiya. Do I want to leave MPS? No, I do not want to leave MPS. We are a proud Minneapolis family. We're proud to be raising our girls in Minneapolis, and we were so proud to send them to Kenny. So the thought of Kenny closing is devastating. I don't know what we'll do, and I know we're not alone in that. A lot of people are contemplating what they would do, and I'm not sure the district has put any thought into that.
You're asking us, "Would you leave?" But that's not a question the district has ever asked. That's the most interesting part to me. It would be the first question I'd ask as a district official and a district leader. So it feels like a huge misstep.
Shakiya Carter: I just want to agree with everything Alyssa said about being vested in our schools and our communities. It's not just about one school in particular. It's about all of the schools.
Sean McPherson: I really appreciate you using the word "vested," and I know you mean it in a community sense, too. But if y'all walk and take your children with you, that's truly a loss of money for Minneapolis Public Schools. Suppose what happens from these closures is a bunch of people going, "I can't deal with MPS anymore," or "This is not what I signed up for," or "My student who has been learning one language won't be able to continue on that path." Then the district might lose a bunch of its student body, which ultimately impacts the bottom line.
I think I could have more understanding of this very drastic school closure plan, though not full understanding, if they said, "This is going to put us on really strong financial footing for years to come. We're just trying to right-size based on our enrollment and the amount of square footage we currently have per student." That square footage, I should add, is way above most public school systems. MPS has 315 square feet per pupil, and you'll find many districts with approximately 150 to 200 square feet. There might be reasons to close schools, but not if it isn't for cost savings.
What I want to ask y'all is this. As difficult as it is to face the idea of your own school closing, a school you're so connected to, do you see something in this proposal that might enable more academic, social, and emotional thriving? Is there something in these statements where you go, "I'm not happy, but I get where the district is coming from"?
Alyssa Olson: I think that's what's missing. This is a conversation we've been having a lot in our community. It would have been one thing for the district to come out and say, "We have to close Kenny Community School, and because we're closing Kenny, the district as a whole is going to be in a much better spot." I think that would be an easier pill to swallow.
But they've come with so little evidence, such a lack of data, and such a lack of thoughtfulness. That's the part where I'm like, "So you're going to come in and do this really hard thing and destroy communities without any facts to back up how it will actually benefit children across this district?" I don't think anyone disagrees that change and transformation are necessary, but we need change and transformation done in the right way. The lack of evidence is astounding to me. Their plans leave us with a lot more questions than answers.
Shakiya Carter: To add on to what Alyssa said, here's my personal perspective. There are three options for building closures, and none of them is a good option. When the board addressed the team that put these proposals together, they asked, "What is this based on, if it's not based on financial savings?" And the team said it's based on the MPS guaranteed student experience.
Well, here's the thing. If you don't know what experience students and families are already having, how can you guarantee them a different experience? You can't. Families are asking, and even board members are asking, "Well, what is it?" We understand they have a chart showing that social-emotional learning and academics will be at the core of this experience. It sounds good, but realistically, that's not an experience you can guarantee. Children come from different homes and different cultural backgrounds, and they speak different languages. So it's good to have this as a goal, but you cannot confidently say it's something you're going to achieve.
Just to give a little history: during the CDD, I was a new family in the district. My oldest had just started pre-K when COVID happened and we had e-learning. Then came the CDD and the boundary changes, and my child was also part of the back-to-school pilot. She switched schools three times between pre-K and first grade until we finally landed at Cityview, where she found her school home. That's a lot of transition for a new family to go through, constantly having to switch their child's school every year. And not because they want to, but because they have to.
Sean McPherson: Shakiya, I'm going to interrupt you real quick. CDD is the redistricting that happened around 2020 and 2021. Is that about the era?
Shakiya Carter: Yes, it was the Comprehensive District Design. I call it the district redesign. What we do know from that data is that 18% of families who were in the district during that time did leave. That's a large percentage of our district.
I also want to mention that the district has to understand that engagement looks different for different groups of people. Something I've been hearing lately is that our families who are homeless and highly mobile haven't been involved in the conversation. Nobody's asking them how it's going to affect them, or stepping in to say, "Hey, here are the plans. How can we help you prepare?"
We have Somali families, Hmong families, and Hispanic families where a lot of the time the adults don't speak English. They're not being properly communicated with, and that's a barrier the district has yet to dissolve. So there are a lot of people being left out of this conversation, and still a lot of Black families who don't know.
Sean McPherson: I won't give them an A-plus for communication. When there are really hard things to break down, the least they could do is make sure it's well presented and soundly researched. Personally, I share your frustration and your feeling that it's been neither.
I will say that y'all seem very well researched and very capable communicators, and you've shown real courage during a time of crisis for your own families. I can't imagine all the stuff you're managing right now, so taking time out to chat with us means a lot. Hopefully your stories and the things you've shared today will reach more ears, and people will get a sense of what's happening with this transformation at Minneapolis Public Schools.
That was Shakiya Carter and Alyssa Olson, parents of children at Cityview and Kenny. I sincerely thank you for your time today, and I'm sending my love out to you as a fellow parent for what you're facing in the coming months.
Shakiya and Alyssa: Thank you.
